Inside the new Files On-Demand Experience on macOS
Published Jan 12 2022 10:28 AM 259K Views
Microsoft

2.24.22 UPDATE: We've been listening to your feedback, and we've made some design changes. We're releasing a new version that addresses the most common themes and makes it easier to achieve the previous experience. Please read the latest blog post for more details.

 

2.15.22 UPDATE: We're actively reviewing feedback and are aware of the difficulties some users are experiencing with the recent update. We working as quickly as possible to resolve these issues. We will share an update soon.

Additional information can be found in the FAQ updated on 2.1.22.

- Team OneDrive 

 

 

In June 2021, we announced several important updates for OneDrive on macOS, including an update to our Files On-Demand experience. This new experience is better integrated with macOS and will also help enable new features like Known Folder Move for macOS.

 

Today, we are excited to share that we have begun rolling out the new Files On-Demand experience to all our customers using macOS 12.1 or later. We also want to share some additional details about how the new Files On-Demand experience works, what changes you can expect, and when you can expect them.

We know that many of you are supporting organizations with lots of Macs that run OneDrive, and the more information we can provide you, the better you can serve your users.

 

Why we are building a new experience

 

In 2018, we shipped the first version of Files On-Demand for macOS. Since then, we’ve rolled it out for everyone using macOS 10.14 (Mojave) or later.

 

We are building a new experience for several reasons. One of the most important is that the new technology stack (based on Apple’s File Provider platform) is much better integrated with the operating system compared to the first version. This means a better user experience, better application compatibility, and better reliability. This technology stack also enables us to offer new features that we couldn’t offer before, like Known Folder Move, along with lots of other little improvements that you probably won’t notice right away!

 

Because the new experience is more integrated with macOS, it will have long-term support from Apple. The first version of Files On-Demand is built on several pieces of technology that are now deprecated. Moving to the new platform enables us to support this feature for years to come.

 

Supported macOS versions

 

For users who are not part of our Insiders program, the new Files On-Demand experience requires macOS 12.1 or later. Users on our Insiders program can continue to use macOS 12.0, but we strongly encourage them to update to the latest version.

 

macOS 12.2 will be the last version that supports the classic Files On-Demand experience. For macOS 12.3 or later, this means:

  • Files On-Demand will default to on for all users and cannot be disabled.
  • Devices will migrate automatically to the new Files On-Demand as soon as they receive a macOS update. You cannot delay this update without also delaying an update to macOS.
  • Both our Standalone and App Store versions of OneDrive will have the same behavior.
  • Users running a developer or beta version of macOS will have the same experience as a release version of macOS.

 

If you are concerned about application compatibility with this change, we strongly suggest that you install macOS 12.3 or later and test your workload. Depending on the results of that test, you may want to delay updating your Macs.

 

File system requirements

 

The new Files On-Demand experience requires a volume that is formatted with APFS. HFS+ volumes are not supported.

 

We are ending support for HFS+ after macOS 12.3 or later. A very small minority of customers are syncing OneDrive on HFS+ volumes today. As we roll out the new Files On-Demand, these users will first experience a warning in the OneDrive activity center telling them to upgrade to APFS. Once the new Files On-Demand experience is fully rolled out, OneDrive will not launch until the volume is upgraded to APFS.

 

You can use Disk Utility (built in to macOS) to determine which volumes are running APFS, and upgrade any HFS+ volumes to APFS.

 

Sync root location

 

When users set up OneDrive, they must choose a location where files will sync. This is called a sync root. Historically, we’ve allowed users to choose any location on any fixed volume mounted on their Mac.

 

With the new Files On-Demand experience, the sync root is always located within users’ home directory, in a path such as:

 

~/Library/CloudStorage/OneDrive-Personal

 

As part of the upgrade, the sync root will be moved to this location. This location cannot be moved or changed and is controlled by macOS.

 

This path is a little cumbersome for users to use, so they can access this directory in two other ways:

  • Under Locations on the Finder’s left navigation pane.
  • Via a symlink at the original location the user picked when setting up OneDrive. For example, if the user chose to sync OneDrive at ~/OneDrive, then a symlink will be created from here to ~/Library/CloudStorage/OneDrive-Personal.

 

Cache path

 

To support the new experience, OneDrive maintains a cache path in a hidden location. This path contains a replica of the file tree that the user is syncing. Most of the files in this location are usually dataless and don’t consume disk space, but occasionally files here can have data, such as if a user pins a file or if a change is being transferred to or from the cloud.

 

OneDrive tries to maintain as little data here as possible, and instead prefers to keep data in the sync root. As such, file data is not generally kept in both locations unless a file is marked as “Always Available on This Device.” In that case, the file’s data will sometimes be retained in both the sync root and the cache, but the files will be linked using a clone, so they do not occupy any additional space.

 

Using another volume

 

Sometimes, users choose a path on another volume to set up OneDrive. A typical use case for this happens when a user has a small internal drive on their Mac, but also has a larger external drive attached.

 

This configuration is still supported in the new Files On-Demand experience if an external drive is selected during the first-run experience. A few things change as a result:

  • The sync root remains in ~/Library/CloudStorage, on the user’s home volume. As noted above, this path cannot be moved from this location.
  • The cache path is on the volume that was selected during the first-run experience. This is located in a hidden folder that’s a sibling of the location that was chosen.
    • This folder begins with the name “.ODContainer”.
  • A symlink is created from the chosen location to ~/Library/CloudStorage.

 

For example, if the user selects /Volumes/BigDrive/OneDrive for their OneDrive path:

  • The sync root will remain in ~/Library/CloudStorage/OneDrive-Personal
  • The cache path will be set up at /Volumes/BigDrive/.ODContainer-OneDrive
  • A symlink will link from /Volumes/BigDrive/OneDrive to ~/Library/CloudStorage/OneDrive-Personal

 

Because the cache path is located on an external drive in this scenario, any pinned content will be stored there and not on the main drive.

 

The cache path folder is hidden by default. Users should not modify this folder or its contents.

 

User consent

 

For OneDrive to complete setup with the new File Provider platform, the user must consent to allow OneDrive to sync. This experience is like the experience of allowing an application access to the Documents folder or the user’s Contacts.

 

AnkitaKirti_0-1642011516079.png

 

Consent is not required in the following cases:

  • If the user previously opted-in to use the Finder Sync extension. This is set by default for the Standalone build, and the vast majority of our App Store users have opted-in as well.
  • If the OneDrive app was deployed and managed through an MDM tool. MDM-managed applications are considered to have implied consent by the administrator.

 

If consent is required, the user will be prompted to provide it during the first run experience when setting up OneDrive for the first time.

 

The user can withdraw consent from the System Preferences -> Extensions preference pane. If consent is withdrawn, OneDrive will display an error dialog, an error in the Activity Center, and an error icon, until the user provides consent again. OneDrive cannot run without consent.

 

Always Keep on This Device

 

A standard feature of Files On-Demand on all our platforms is the ability to mark files as “Always Keep on This Device.” Internally, we call this operation “pinning.”

 

AnkitaKirti_1-1642011516145.png

 

 

When a file is pinned, it is downloaded to disk and is always available offline, even if there is no network connection. The presence of the check mark icon indicates that a file is in this state. Folders can also be pinned, which means that all files and folders underneath the folder will inherit the state, and new files added to that folder will also inherit the state.

 

Pinning a file on the new Files On-Demand platform means that its contents will be downloaded into the OneDrive cache. Because is the file is in the OneDrive cache, it can always be provided to the sync root whenever it is needed, even if the machine is offline or the OneDrive app isn’t running. The presence of the gray check mark indicates a file that is in this state.

 

You may notice that pinned files sometimes have an icon next to them that indicates they aren’t downloaded. This icon just means that the file isn’t in the sync root. If a file has the gray check icon, it is still always available because OneDrive has the file in its cache and can always provide it.

 

Free Up Space

 

When you no longer need a file on your Mac, you can use the “Free Up Space” option to immediately evict its data. When you do this, data is evicted from both the sync root and OneDrive’s cache, ensuring it occupies no bytes on disk. However, it is still available in the cloud.

 

Disk space usage

 

Files that are kept in the sync root do not count against disk space usage, unless they are marked as “Always Keep on This Device.”

 

For example, imagine the sync root contains five files, each 20mb in size, for a total of 100mb. These files are fully in-sync with the cloud. Now imagine another application asks about the amount of free space on the drive. These five files do not count against the disk space used, so the size reported to the application will be 100mb larger than you might expect.

 

The reason for this behavior is that in low disk space situations, these files can be automatically evicted from the disk to make room for more data. For instance, imagine an application wants to write 50mb of data to disk, but there is no more disk space. However, because the five files in the sync root can be evicted as needed, the write can safely complete. To do that, three of these five files will be evicted to make 60mb of space, and so the 50mb write completes.

 

This behavior has several implications:

  • Files that have data in the sync root can be evicted at any time.
  • The system will automatically clean up files as disk space runs low.
  • Mark files as “Always Available on This Device” if you do not want them to be evicted.

 

We know that some organizations have scripts or something similar to automatically free up space for OneDrive content, usually at login or on a set schedule. Because macOS will automatically free space from OneDrive files as needed, such scripts are no longer necessary, unless you want to prevent users from keeping content in the “Always Keep on This Device” state.

 

File system feature support

 

The new Files On-Demand experience supports some existing features of APFS that were previously poorly supported by OneDrive. These include:

  • File tags
  • Last used date
  • File system flags
  • Extended attributes
  • Type and creator code
  • Symlinks

 

Note that changes to these properties do not sync to or from the cloud, but OneDrive will preserve them on the local file system. Previously, they might only have been preserved for a short while but overwritten by a change from the cloud.

 

Symlinks have special support in the new experience. They are preserved as a symlink in the sync root but do not sync to the cloud as a symlink, as the OneDrive cloud does not support symlinks. Instead, the symlink will sync to the cloud as a plain text file with the symlink target as its contents. Previously, OneDrive ignored symlinks.

 

Packages

 

OneDrive now supports syncing packages, or files that appear as a single file but are actually a directory with many files and folders underneath them. Some applications exclusively create packages. Additionally, most Mac applications are stored on disk as a package.

 

Traditionally, the problem with syncing packages has been that packages often contain file states that don’t sync well in the cloud. For example, some packages contain internal symlinks, extended attributes, or other file system quirks that can result in a corrupt package if these are not synced correctly. The OneDrive app itself is an example of such a package – previously, if you saved the OneDrive app in OneDrive and attempted to open it on another Mac, it would be corrupt.

 

With the new experience, packages are now synced as a single file with a hidden .pkgf extension appended automatically. For instance, if you create a file named “Foo.app” in your OneDrive, it will sync to the cloud as “Foo.app.pkgf”. OneDrive automatically strips the .pkgf extension on compatible Macs, and the file will appear as a valid package on all compatible Macs.

 

Note that Macs not running the new Files On-Demand experience cannot read files in the .pkgf format.

 

Unlink, unmount, and reset

 

When you unlink your Mac or unmount a syncing location, OneDrive will preserve the non-dataless contents of your sync root. This works by removing the symlink to ~/Library/CloudStorage, creating a new folder in its place, and moving the files in your sync root that are not dataless to that location. Files in the OneDrive cache path are removed.

 

OneDrive also ships with a reset script included in the application bundle. This script behaves in a similar way, except that the non-dataless files are always moved into a folder in the user’s home directory named something like “OneDrive (Archive).” Files in the cache path are removed, except if the cache path is located on a volume other than the home volume.

 

Over time, we expect to improve this experience.

Learning more

 

 To learn more about OneDrive,

 

Thanks for reading!

 

Jack Nichols

Principal Software Architect - OneDrive

 

Update 2/1/2022

 

Hi everyone - Jack from Microsoft here. Just to quickly introduce myself, I'm the author of the original blog post, and also the architect for the OneDrive sync client. I'm the engineer who led the teams that designed and built Files On-Demand for Windows, macOS, and now the new macOS experience, so I have the most context about how Files On-Demand works and the trade-offs involved in building something like this.

The entire OneDrive team has been reading your comments, concerns and feedback, and we really appreciate everyone taking the time to write them. The community clearly has a lot of passion for OneDrive and how it works. I've spent many hours in the last week or two reading comments here and elsewhere, to understand how we can improve our macOS experience further.

Although we can't respond to all of you directly, there are a couple of themes and frequently asked questions that I wanted to answer to help provide some more clarity.

 

Why are all my files redownloading with this update? Why are my always-available files displaying a "not downloaded" icon?

 

Let me first set you at ease: your files aren't actually redownloading. What you are seeing is a bit of an optical illusion.

 

When your OneDrive instance is upgraded to the new Files On-Demand, macOS creates a new folder for your OneDrive files and we move your old folder into our cache location. We do it this way for many reasons, but two of the most important are that we can preserve your settings around which files are always available, and we can prevent the sync client from performing a costly reindex of all of your content.

As your files are brought into our cache, we tell the macOS File Provider platform about them. That causes the operating system to create the files in the new OneDrive folder that you will actually use. As part of telling the File Provider platform about your files, we include metadata about them, so that the operating system knows how big they are, what icons to show, and so forth.

Unfortunately, the current implementation of File Provider does not allow us to tell the operating system that we already have the file's contents available – so they appear to be online-only, even though their contents are safe in our cache, ready for the first time you access them. The best that we can do is tell the system to show the always available icon (the checkmark), but we can't tell the system to hide the "not downloaded" icon. The "not downloaded" icon is shown automatically by the File Provider system when the file is dataless in the sync root, and there's no current way for OneDrive to override this. Please know that we are actively investigating ways to address this, as we understand that it is a top source (if not the top source) of user confusion with this update.

 

The key thing to remember here is that if you double-click the files that we already have in our cache (files that you pinned when you selected “Always Keep On This Device” and anything you had downloaded before we did the upgrade), they will be retrieved and opened as expected, without any network traffic. This will work even if OneDrive isn't running, is paused, and so forth.

 

Why were my Finder favorite folders removed?

 

During the upgrade to the File Provider platform, OneDrive removes these favorites as they no longer point to a valid location. Most users will have a "OneDrive" favorite that will be removed in this manner, but a few users have dragged other folders of interest to this sidebar, which will also be removed if they were pointing at a OneDrive folder.

After the upgrade, if you want these favorite folders back, you will need to add them again by dragging your favorite folders to the Finder's sidebar.

 

How can I make it so that all my files are synced on my Mac and made available for offline access?

 

If you want all files synced on your device, you should pin the OneDrive folder. The easiest way to do this is to browse to your OneDrive in the Finder, change the view to Icons view, and then right-click the blank space between icons. Then, select Always Keep on This Device.. We're actively looking at ways to make this easier to configure on both macOS and Windows.

 

macOS Pin the Root 2.gif

 

 

Is there a technical reason that explains why Files On-Demand must always be enabled?

 

OneDrive has taken a dependency on Apple's File Provider platform as part of this update, as we believe it is the right long-term path forward for the product. Files On-Demand functionality is a core part of Apple's File Provider platform, but File Provider offers a lot more than that, too. I'll touch on a few of those things here below.

  • For instance, the little icons you see next to your files in OneDrive for macOS are now handled by the File Provider platform. This seems like a small thing, but it has a big impact. Before File Provider, we used something called a Finder Sync extension to show these icons in the Finder, but the Finder Sync extension was one of the top sources of problems on the macOS sync client. For example, the icons sometimes mysteriously disappeared, or performance problems affected the system. Because we eliminated the Finder Sync extension, we also eliminated an entire class of problems as a result.
  • This has also improved the reliability of OneDrive running on macOS. As part of our normal sync process, the sync client occasionally runs checks to ensure everything is syncing correctly. The results of those checks are reported to us as telemetry which we use to help ensure there aren't emerging bugs, and most of the time, we find and fix bugs before anyone notices them. We've been very closely monitoring this telemetry as the new macOS Files On-Demand experience has rolled out, and we’ve noticed is that reliability is significantly better than what we had before. This translates to a much better sync experience for you.
  • Finally, it is important to note that beginning in macOS 12.3, File Provider is the only Files On-Demand solution that is supported on macOS. Our prior solution is no longer supported. 

Files On-Demand has been available on Windows since 2017, and on macOS since 2018. In that time, we've progressed from the feature being opt-in only to being on by default for all users and have closely monitored how many users turn off Files On-Demand. Only a very small number of users disable Files On-Demand on both platforms, and there are two main reasons for that.

  • Application compatibility: When Files On-Demand first shipped on Windows, some applications didn't work well with the way we stored files, or with anti-virus or other security software that was installed. Over time, we've fixed most of these problems. On macOS, we took a similarly cautious approach, but the application compatibility landscape is quite different and, in some ways, less complex. Still, there were a few cases where, due to the technology stack we were using on macOS, it made sense for certain users to disable Files On-Demand to preserve compatibility. With the File Provider platform, these problems have gone away, so application compatibility issues on macOS should be much less likely to occur. If you find something different with your setup, please reach out to your support contact so we can diagnose the issue.
  • Locally available files: We know that keeping all content locally on the device is an important scenario for a small set of users. The best way to do this is to select Always Keep on This Device from the right-click menu to mark content as “pinned”.

Note that this applies to folders too; if you pin a folder, all of the content that's currently in it and new content that is added to it will be kept on the device.

 

Why is it sometimes slow to browse folders in my OneDrive?

 

To save space and system resources, the File Provider platform doesn't actually create the files OneDrive is managing until the first time you need them. The first time you open a OneDrive folder, macOS will create them on-demand. This can sometimes take a moment.

To avoid this delay, you can force the system to pre-create all of these files and folders for you without downloading your content. To do this, open a Terminal window and type "ls -alR ~/OneDrive" (or the path to your OneDrive). This will ensure all of your files and folders are created, but not downloaded, before you browse.

 

Can OneDrive be stored on an external drive? How does pinning a file work when I use an external drive? Are there multiple copies of my data?

 

I've seen several threads on this topic but let me clarify with an emphatic yes: external drives are fully supported without any difference in the end-user experience.

That said, external drive support as it exists today is implemented differently than it was in the past because of how File Provider works. Very few users are running this configuration, but for them, it's an important scenario because often their content won't fit on the home drive. File Provider doesn't support creating the sync root on any drive except for the home drive. So, we had to find a way to support external drives within these constraints.

When you choose a path to sync your OneDrive, we use that path to derive where we put your OneDrive cache path. If that path is on an external drive, we'll put the cache path there. We wanted to honor this preference because the cache path is where your pinned content is stored, as I'll explain below.

When your cache path is placed on an external drive, OneDrive tries to minimize the number of copies of your data it makes, and in most cases, only one copy will exist, usually in the sync root. If your home drive runs into disk pressure, the operating system will evict (dataless) files from the sync root, but they can always be obtained again from the cloud if needed. In some cases a file might exist in both places for a short time, but over time we will ship fixes that will optimize this further.

Pinned files on an external drive have behavior quirks that are worth understanding. If you pin a file, it will download to the cache path only, and will show both the checkbox and "not downloaded" state icons. This is because the file is dataless in the sync root but exists as a full file in the cache path. However, if you pin a file and also double-click it to open it, we will bring it into your sync root, so there are two copies, one in each location. Note that files brought into your sync root in this manner can still be evicted by macOS when it encounters disk pressure, but when this happens, only the file in the sync root is evicted. We still keep the data in your cache path, so you can always get to the file's content, even if you are offline.

The table below depicts how this works when you set up sync on external drives:

 

User action

File in sync root

File in cache path

Default state

Dataless

Dataless

Right click -> "Always Keep on This Device"

Dataless

Has data

Double click the file

Has data

Has data

macOS runs into disk pressure

Dataless

Has data

Right click -> "Free Up Space"

Dataless

Dataless

Essentially, the table depicts the guarantee that OneDrive makes about pinned files, namely that as long as we have a pinned file, we'll always keep the data available to you locally. The only time we don't have that data is either in the default state, or if you tell us to free up space for the file.

 

How does disk space usage work in the sync root?

 

In the original blog post, I mentioned that files with data in the sync root do not count against your disk usage. Some people took this to mean that these files occupy zero bytes on the disk, but what actually happens is that these files don't count against your used disk space. That is, if an application asks, "How much space is free on this disk?" that answer will exclude these files.

There are a handful of special cases where these rules don't apply:

  • Pinned files, if your cache path is on your home drive. In this situation, the file in the cache path and the file in the sync root are Apple File System (APFS)clones of one another, and although there are two files, they share the same space on disk until one changes. File Provider won't evict files that have a clone, and such files will count against used disk space.
    • If your cache path is on an external drive, there is no clone, so pinned files can be evicted from your sync root and don't count against used space on your home drive.
  • OneDrive designates certain file types as non-evictable, and therefore these files count against used space. The most important of these file types are shortcuts to OneNote files, which only occupy a handful of bytes. This matches the behavior on Windows as well.

The system logic to decide what files count against used disk space and what files do not is provided by the File Provider platform. If you find behavior that works differently than I've described here, please reach out to support, or to Apple.

 

Will this work with local file indexing (e.g. Apple's Spotlight)?

Yes. Spotlight indexes everything that is in your sync root, but note that Spotlight will not fetch (or hydrate) files that are dataless. If you are looking for something in Spotlight that could only be read from the full file (such as image EXIF data), only fully hydrated files will be indexed.

Spotlight will not index our cache folder.

 

Why is my AutoSave not working after this upgrade?

 

We have been made aware of users experiencing issues with AutoSave when using the Store version of the OneDrive app. We are actively working to resolve this in the next few days. In the interim, if you want to get unblocked, you can move to the Standalone build.
To move to the Standalone build from the Store version, you can unlink your account, uninstall the App Store version, and reinstall the Standalone version from this link: https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=823060.
We will keep you updated about the fix on this thread.

Update 2/3: The fix for AutoSave for the App Store version was released in the Store today. It is fixed with 22.002.0201.0005.

 

If you still have more queries feel free to reach out to the team directly on this discussion thread.  Files On-Demand for macOS QA - Microsoft Tech Community

Thank you for your constant support and partnership!

Jack 

 

598 Comments
Copper Contributor

If Dropbox for Mac can still work exactly the way I want it, I don't understand why Microsoft engineers can't do the same thing with OneDrive?

Copper Contributor
I've seen several threads on this topic but let me clarify with an emphatic yes: external drives are fully supported without any difference in the end-user experience.

 I must be missing something here. OneDrive doesn't allow me to set up sync folder on an external drive at all, complaining with the following message:
Screenshot 2022-08-28 at 2.22.14 AM.pngScreenshot 2022-08-28 at 2.21.51 AM.png
The hdd is formatted as APFS / GUID Partition Map but MacOS anyway says it's ejectable:
Screenshot 2022-08-28 at 2.20.09 AM.png
So OneDrive doesn't allow anything like what is described. External drives are just not supported in any form as far as i can see
CC @Ankita Kirti 

Copper Contributor

I am still without words... How could you move all of my files without any warning and transform your software in something unusable for weeks? 

I will keep my 365 subscription because I need it for work, I'll keep active my onedrive for the same reason, but I copied all my files in my iCloud drive (I had to pay for more GB) and I deleted most of my (outdated) files from Onedrive. 

Copper Contributor

@Marco__ Use Syncthing, you don't need to move your files to the next provider that you have to trust. Also, it's free.

Copper Contributor

This blog post from MS is nearly a year old.  During that time, my experience with OneDrive on my mac laptop running Monterey has grown steadily worse.  I really liked the old (pre-OSX-version-12) OneDrive that allowed the option of keeping all files local all the time without having to "pin" everything.  

 

In the last 24 hours, I reached the limit of my patience.  Among the myriad experiences preventing me from doing my work: (1) A colleague emails me a PP document, which I modify and resave under a different name.  I try to reply to my colleague and attach the new file BUT OUTLOOK CANNOT SEE IT; it will be over an hour before I'm able to attach this file even though it is saved locally on my machine.  (2) I download a .csv file from the web to edit using Excel but EXCEL CANNOT SEE IT; again, it will be a long time before I'm able to get on with my work even though once again, the file exists on my local machine.

 

Jack Nichols from MS: I have no idea why you claim this is "the right long-term path forward" but your team has had more than half a year to address the legitimate complaints from the commenters to this post.  Yet the problem has only gotten worse as far as I can tell.  I'm taking steps to get rid of OneDrive and I will tell anyone who asks me exactly why I made that decision. (Losing the ability to sync my two macs will be quite inconvenient for me, but less so than continuing to use OneDrive.)

Copper Contributor

@drh20 The answer is iCloud. OneDrive screwed me over some time ago, forcing me to consider other options. iCloud is so much better than OneDrive was, even when it worked.

Iron Contributor

I also switched to iCloud, which is working perfectly. My files are locally stored and accessible from all my devices, Apple AND Microsoft (using the iCloud Software).

Watching this topic now for many many weeks and month I lost all my faith in Microsoft. Doing this idiotic change, getting tons of feedback and NOT changing everything... unbelievable!

Brass Contributor

I tried to be patient with OneDrive as I had used it for some time and wanted to use the 1TB of storage with came with my Office subscription.  I worked through all of the poor implementation and mess that came with this new "Files On-Demand" trip.  Had all of my files deleted from my computer, re-downloaded them twice, watched OneDrive (even after the many updates) to continue to use HUGE amounts of CPU and memory.

 

So I tried a small test with iCloud Drive.  Guess what?  It worked right away with no issues or bugs, and it didn't experience the CPU and memory hogging OneDrive had.  So now I've moved all of my files to iCloud.  After the initial data transfer, all works perfectly.  And it gives me features I never had in OneDrive, like the ability to share a folder in iCloud with other users and have that folder be read-only.  I should have tried this months ago.

 

I'm frustrated I had to move.   Microsoft made a mess of this implementation, and if - as they claim - they are using the same methods Apple uses in iCloud they are really missing the mark.  I have to pay for additional iCloud space, but that's a minimal cost to get rid of all the headaches with OneDrive.  I'll have to rethink my Office subscription as much of the value I received came from using the OneDrive storage.

Brass Contributor

Screenshot 2022-11-25 at 8.58.08 am.png

Ever since Microsoft released this update OneDrive for Mac has been completely unusable.  No matter how many times I reset the client, if I'm using AutoSave with Microsoft Word for Mac then in a very short period of time OneDrive is taking 100% CPU usage.  Microsoft ignores all feedback sent about this for many months.  This product is now simply not fit for purpose.

Brass Contributor

Condescending replies from product management or tech support like "We're hearing your feedback".  Very doubtful given the complete cluster*ck this has been.  I'm going to bite the bullet and pay BackBlaze to offsite the files I had on OneDrive that I thought would be okay too use "so my 1TB with Office doesn't go to waste".  I'd rather waste money paying BackBlaze than waste any more of my time dealing with this broken POS.  What moron thought it was a good idea to download 100% of a user's files to their local computer BEFORE giving them the choice to "hide" (not download, stupid name too) files they don't want locally at all.  Now the current version won't delete the files it was never supposed to download when you hide the directories. For 48 hours my new Mac has been unusable because Microsoft tried to shove 1.5TB onto a 1TB drive and doesn't have the brains to simply delete the two folders. Why is it running in the background "syncing" when it doesn't sync?

Brass Contributor

Now that Dropbox too has adapted their client to adopt the integrated apis to manage synced content on the cloud, which allow less flexibility than custom solutions or, indeed, what Apple reserves for its own solution, I think no other provider will be able to offer a solution that isn’t a hack and offers what was lost. Dropbox waited until the custom solutions were not just deprecated like Microsoft did, but actively deprived of system support, but whatever the case the result is the same, Apple wants users to migrate to its much more expensive service, and to spend on extra hardware for that, eventually. Microsoft may have dragged its feet here but it’s the platform that has become explicitly hostile. Evaluate migrating to Windows.

Iron Contributor

After watching this discussion and the mess that arrogant Microsoft team caused I switched to iCloud and I am sooo happy with it.

I just came across that URL of this discussion and what do I have to see... still not solved.

What a **bleep** team is that, giving so many people that so called "user experience" for month now...

I am happy to got rid of that Microsoft crap.

Brass Contributor

@Oliver105 @As you were meant to do, I expect.

Iron Contributor

... as I did :)

Copper Contributor

Destroyed all my workflows. Destroyed my job. So i quit my job and will do something else.

Copper Contributor

 


@Ankita Kirti wrote:

Using another volume

 

Sometimes, users choose a path on another volume to set up OneDrive. A typical use case for this happens when a user has a small internal drive on their Mac, but also has a larger external drive attached.

 

This configuration is still supported in the new Files On-Demand experience if an external drive is selected during the first-run experience. A few things change as a result:

  • The sync root remains in ~/Library/CloudStorage, on the user’s home volume. As noted above, this path cannot be moved from this location.
  • The cache path is on the volume that was selected during the first-run experience. This is located in a hidden folder that’s a sibling of the location that was chosen.
    • This folder begins with the name “.ODContainer”.
  • A symlink is created from the chosen location to ~/Library/CloudStorage.

 

For example, if the user selects /Volumes/BigDrive/OneDrive for their OneDrive path:

  • The sync root will remain in ~/Library/CloudStorage/OneDrive-Personal
  • The cache path will be set up at /Volumes/BigDrive/.ODContainer-OneDrive
  • A symlink will link from /Volumes/BigDrive/OneDrive to ~/Library/CloudStorage/OneDrive-Personal

 

Because the cache path is located on an external drive in this scenario, any pinned content will be stored there and not on the main drive.

I am using this configuration and this description isn't consistent with what I've observed.

 

There is indeed a directory at /Volumes/External/.ODContainer-OneDrive, and it appears to contain the OneDrive cache. There is also a symlink in /Volumes/External that points to ~/Library/CloudStorage/OneDrive. But if a file is downloaded locally, disk usage goes up, NOT on the external drive but on the internal drive housing the home directory ONLY.

 

Is this the expected behavior? It sounds as if you are saying that cached content will be stored on the external drive where the cache path is located, but this does not seem to be true. In fact there seems to be little point to designating an external drive to hold the cache, as it will not be actually stored there anyway.

 

Has something changed in the months since this post was written? I have version 22.238.1114.0002 (Standalone) (Apple Silicon).

Copper Contributor

@Jack Nichols.  Thanks for all the detailed explanations and advice on getting OneDrive to possibly work on a mac.  But here's my feedback: If your product requires customers to read long technical blogs on cloud file handling, and fully understand what is going on under the hood in order to safely use your product, you are doing something wrong.  In my opinion you are making the classic mistake of imposing solutions you *think* your customers need rather than really listening to them. Since my original post to this forum, I have long since abandoned OneDrive, mostly because I don't have the necessary level of technical expertise nor time and energy to figure out what exactly it's doing with the files, and how to make sure it is playing well with other local backup systems. 

Copper Contributor

I was happy to use OneDrive until 2022 with MacOs Big Sur. I stayed with Big Sur for fear that new versions of MacOs would have some difficulty with compatibility with services or applications. When I upgraded to Ventura OneDrive became meaningless for me as I can't store my files on the main system drive. Before, I could do storage on my external disk and it was perfect. Now, I don't know what to do.

Copper Contributor

What the hell Microsoft is doing? I think Microsoft is supposed to lay off 20% of workers to avoid stupid updates. 

I have an SSD and I have two Macs with different /user/XXX/ names, I need to use my SSD in two Macs, but sync the files in my SSD.

I want to save a copy of the files in the cloud instead of making my copy in my SSD disappear but the files in the cloud. Are you kidding me? I have 200Gb files for my work, and it must be always in my SSD, are you kidding me? 

This wastes at least more than a week to download my files and I need to pay extra money to find new cloud software.

I also lost some files during this process. This is arrogant for Microsoft. 

No doubt that you have to lay off a lot of workers because you don't care for the customers at all!

I'm going to download all my files and stop using office 365.

It makes me crazy and can not sleep when I first find this new update. What the hell are you doing?

It's also crazy for mac. I guess there are some restrictions on the mac system.

 

 

Brass Contributor

I guess there is only one way to change this - to ditch OneDrive and to find alternative. I think that when MS will see that its loosing customers, only then changes will be made. I'm almost sure, that posts in this thread will not help to change this situation, because as for now - MS is simply DOESN'T CARE.

Copper Contributor

a symlink in /Volumes/External that points to ~/Library/CloudStorage/OneDrive

 

It's been a while since I've had sysadmin responsibilities, but isn't this backwards?

That is, if you want the files to be stored on the external drive (i.e. ~/Library/CloudStorage/OneDrive should be 'pointing to'  as in 'providing access to'   /Volumes/External ) 

 

A lot of us don't have the option of switching to iCloud because of all of the SaaS products that claim to "integrate" with Office365 (and thus each other) by way of dumping their files into OneDrive.  And because we are using Mac laptops along with Windows networks and workstations. The business world (beyond freelancers and small media companies) is not going to adopt iCloud. (And Apple discontinued its Server offering last year, so it knows that.)

 

This is software that is provided for both personal and enterprise purposes; and it's a pretty fundamental issue with the usability of the Office suite on Mac OS.  Pressure needs to be kept on MS to fix it (including as a proxy for Apple). Likewise, Dropbox and Google to the extent that inadequacies in the File Provider Extensions are ultimately to blame. 

Copper Contributor

I strongly recommend guys that who are writers or researchers that use an SSD not use OneDrive for important files, especially for Scrivener, and Mendeley users, don't put your backup file automatically into /volume/OneDrive/.

 

I just don't understand why there must be three files:

volume/.ODContainer-OneDrive/

volume/OneDrive/

user/xxx/OneDrive-Personal/

 

This ruined my life. Actually, I have been using a paid version of one drive for more than 5 years.

I have no reason to use it anymore as I have other free drives for small space and paid version of iCloud with 50Gb.

I put all my files in /volume/OneDrive/ and then Microsoft deletes my local files in /volume/OneDrive/ and uploads it to their cloud with all the local files deleted.

I'm angry because I have a lot of files. It costs me too much time to download it and leave this stupid OneDrive.

When I download it, it saves in volume/.ODContainer-OneDrive/ instead of /volume/OneDrive/

However, I have several files saved to /volume/OneDrive/XXX/ automatically by Scrivener, Mendeley, etc.

My files including the Scrivener documents and my Mendeley papers all in a mess.

Everything is a mess now!

I'm a part-time writer, and my backup files in /volume/OneDrive/Scrivener/ are a piece of **bleep**, so I quit writing for almost half a year as you know there will be contradictions of Scrivener for different versions. I have been saving the old version more than 20 times since this update. Actually, it was always **bleep** and I paid a lot of time to repair my Scrivener, and suddenly find it is because of this stupid OneDrive.

How could it be two files in both user/xxx/OneDrive-Personal/ and volume/.ODContainer-OneDrive/. You ruined my life! 

I guess the employees are updating since they need to pretend to be working. 

No doubt that a lot of guys are laid off : ) Because the system gets worse as there are more engineers. 

The worst thing is that I find this update too late after I try to repair my mendely and scrivener many times. I lost almost the modification of my scrivener files more than 10 times with more than 50 chapters of my book. Every time I save it to/volume/OneDrive/, it has some problems. I also lost the modification of my Mendeley backup files for my survey paper for more than 150 papers. 

Before I read all the explanations online, I just kept repairing my Onedrive, Mendeley, and Scrivener. 

I stopped using Onedrive since I lost my  Mendeley papers. And this week I tried to use it again and find this is all because of this stupid update.

I moved all my important files out of OneDrive.

So be careful if you find some problems with OneDrive files. It's not your fault! Just stop using it!

 

Copper Contributor

Anyone brave enough to reverse that symlink and see if MS' devs are really that <expletive>?

 

(Don't do this‚—or anything that could have 'unpredictable results'— without an actual backup outside of OD)

 

In another thread, a user mentioned using MountainDuck (https://mountainduck.io/, docs: https://docs.mountainduck.io/protocols/onedrive/ ) to live-mount cloud storage, as a workaround.  (But same warning to have backups before you start using unofficial tools.)

Copper Contributor

My autosave is not working anymore unless I follow these instructions (How do I turn on AutoSave? - Microsoft Support) and don't open the file from the finder. I have reinstalled the standalone OneDrive client and re-signed in to my Office Apps. Still doesn't work. What is strange is that on my second mac at work, it works flawlessly. Any suggestions?

Copper Contributor

OneDrive _was_ working for me however for some unknown reason file uploads to the server stopped working. Downloads continued to work. Long story short - many attempts to reinstall failed to resolve the upload issue. I've removed OneDrive from my Mac (M1 Pro). When (if?) OneDrive is fixed I may reinstall. 

 

Copper Contributor

Every two weeks or so I am forced to cloud-download all my One Drive files (80GB) on my MacBook, since they all appear with the cloud-down arrow icon. I am a High-School teacher in a private Microsoft ShowCase school, but I'm more comfortable working on Mac and I save all my files to One Drive in order to use them on my Surface in the classroom. This issue is frustrating, since it's time consuming and stresses my computer all the time. Please advice.

 

Brass Contributor

Well, I have a Synology NAS and I’ve put OneDrive on it through the CloudSync packGE and now If i need to keep local copies of my files I trust it to do it since on macOS the official client must use the system APIs that arbitrarily offload local copies on the cloud. A copy on the local network isn’t as performant as on an SSD but it’s actually there all the time.

Copper Contributor

Sorry, I could not understand much of your response, since I'm not familiar with many of the terms you use, but as far as I can understand, I'm not talking about saving the files on my drive but being forced to re-download them on the cloud all the time, in order for them to be immediately responsive. Thanks for the reply.

Brass Contributor

The official OneDrive client for macos has been made, after the release of Monterey, compliant with the cloud APIs of the OS which arbitrarily determine whether a file is kept local or if it gets offloaded and must be fetched from the cloud. There is little fix to that. You can mark files as available offline, but an algorithm you have no control over has the final say on where that file resides.

So instead, since I have a NAS, or Network Attached Server, which also supports OneDrive and other cloud services, I have configured my OD on it and mounted its file share as a network drive on my Mac. Because it is not on the Mac, the files remain all locally downloaded. Not an inexpensive practice and updating files on the cloud may be slower, but it gives me the local copy i can no longer have on my Mac.

Copper Contributor

It's a pretty baroque kludge; but I suppose one could set up a guest VM, and configure it as a NAS. So it's actually on the local machine, in terms of portability.  Some googling suggests you can get Synology's NAS OS to run on VirtualBox and VMware. Not sure about HyperV. Or there appear to be Linux OneDrive clients on GitHub. 

Brass Contributor

You could also virtualize a Windows machine, assuming that it can keep the files locally.

Brass Contributor

Yes, the OneDrive-sync app on the Mac does pretty arbitrary things, as one of the earlier contributors wrote. I have the same problem. Even though I select a directory to be "Always keep on this device", nevertheless OneDrive later on still removes the files locally (or hides them somewhere) with as a result that Apple Quick Look (pressing spacebar to see the content of a file) does not work anymore, and - presumably - spotlight won't be working well either. This makes OneDrive pretty unusable for me as I can't rely on having ALL my files with me when ALL the time when I am offline in a train for example. And no, I cannot predict beforehand which files I might need, I simply want them all. Period.

So, @Ankita Kirti, if you finally listen and care to answer to you users: I do want to have ALL my files on my computer, ALL the time, and I do not want any algorithm to decide that I might not need some of them at some random time. This works fine with Apple iCloud, all files I set to be local are and remain local. As I understand that Apple has forced Microsoft to use that same new protocol for file syncing, I do not understand why this could not be made to work with Microsoft as well.

Please note that I had two subscriptions to OneDrive, and I have already cancelled my private one due to this problem. I would really want to cancel the other one too, but can't yet as this is a professional one with no other option yet, but we're looking for alternatives as this simply does not work.

Copper Contributor

Please give us back the ability to sync OneDrive to external drives on MacOS!!!

This makes my there OneDrives Accounts useless. 

You are obligating me to stay on an old Big Sur version and an old OneDrive version in order to be able to sync to my three external (and removable) drives. 

Copper Contributor

To fix the Onedrive folder deep inside the OS-MAC System is completely unnecessary and a disenfranchisement of the users. Sharing data locally is impossible and you force sharing over the Internet. Ultimately, this costs huge environmental resources, unnecessary traffic and a lot of wasted time. We will part with OneDrive if this is not stopped.  

 

We users must be able to decide for ourselves where we store our data and how we share it.

 

Finally share the location again

Knud Holst

Copper Contributor

Guys, this information will be really useful to you who have MacOS and want to use Onedrive on external (thus removable) drives!

 

Microsoft does not explain or describe anything regarding this crucial matter, probably because they do not care about Mac-Users. I will tell you  how you can use OneDrive on removable drives, just as intended. 

 

You can use Onedrive on external/removable drives that are formatted with ExFat, MacOsJournaled (NOT case sensitive), APFS (NOT case sensitive). However, there are differences on how Onedrive operates with them.

1.) When using ExFat, Onedrive will constantly check for changes in order to sync files, it will never stop and drain CPU resources as well as consume more electricity. 

2.) when using APFS, Onedrive automatically switches to a "more modern" way of syncing, which is: a cloud folder will be generated on your primary drive, only files you actually use will be dowloaded (to the primary drive) and afterwards moved to an hidden folder on the external drive. I don't know who came up with this ridiculous structure, but this makes external drives useless and shortens your internal SSDs lifespan really quick, which for most of us is already short enough on an 256gb apple SSD and apple silicon swap memory on meagre 8gb of ram. 

3.) MacOSJournald, that's the format I would choose!, it forces the OneDrive app to sync and maintain all data on the external drive, without using the internal drive. Furthermore, as the drive is journaled, onedrive has no need to search for changes, it only syncs when truly needed. 

 

Now that you know which format to pick, you have to "unlink" all onedrive accounts and uninstall onedrive (preferably with a third party app). 

What I did next was download an old version of the standalone onedrive app for macOS, installed it, blocked the onedrive updater with my firewall, synced my three accounts to three different external drives and afterwards updated to the newest onedrive version (unblocked the updater in my firewall). 

 

I have the newest onedrive version on my mac mini m1 (Ventura) and I am still able to add removable drives. Sooo, downloading the old version was probably overkill. You might be fine using the newest standalone Onedrive app! 

 

Copper Contributor

Hey, rebel4fun, thanks for sharing the info! Could you please elaborate on which version of "old" OneDrive is sufficient here (and I'll greatly appreciate if you can provide a link to it). Thank you in advance

Copper Contributor

Hi,

@TheDreamsWind 

I will post instructions that I shared with @bananadon 

 

1. Format the drive with MacOsJournald-GUID with NON-case-sensitive (the basic version)

2. Go into applications folder in macOS, search for OneDrive, right click, show package content, content, resources, execute: 1. removeonedrivecreds.command 2. resetonedrivestandaloneapp.command

3. delete the OneDrive app using some third party software

4. install an open source firewall like Lulu.app https://objective-see.org/products/lulu.html

5. download an older version of OneDrive and install it: https://www.manageengine.com/products/desktop-central/software-installation/silent_install_Microsoft...

6. block just the "OneDrive updater' using Lulu.app (for example)

7. connect to your Microsoft account and select the external drive

8. once on drive starts to sync to the external drive you may unblock the OneDrive updater in Lulu.app 

9. you will be able to add new external drives even after OneDrive updates

 

Copper Contributor

It should be clear that Microsoft has no intentions on facilitating the use of external drives with Onedrive under MacOS. It appears as though Microsoft actively tries to hide and restrict this functionality.
Evidently, older versions of OneDrive work perfectly on MacOS Ventura with exFat/MacJournald formatted removable (and thus) external drives.

Updating Onedrive while already having synced drives does no limit any functions.

Copper Contributor

Finally...I'm close my Microsoft Onedrive subscription, me and my five sharing members......and moving to iCloud Drive. Regards to all!!!

Brass Contributor

Good job, only leaving customers can force Microsoft to move a little. Btw, you can try Filen or Koofr, which have no single problem with external drives.

Iron Contributor

@Seyler: I did that. And I am so happy with it.
Leaving this arrogant and dumb developers of Microsoft was the best I did so far.
A "new experience"... what a bullshit.

Iron Contributor

Dear all,
I was an active part of this discussion month ago.
After these stupid and arrogant developers - and Anika - never ever cared about our problems for month, I changed to iCloud and I am soo happy with that.
Leaving this arrogant MS behavior and all "new experience" blabla was the best decision I made.

Now, after coming back since so many month I am sad to read that NOTHING has changed since then.

Best luck to all of you!

Copper Contributor

I don't know what happened but since our licence was ended I was not able to log back in after a reboot into the OneDrive application on my M1 Mac (which is logic of course) but with that ALL my project documents on my own local machine were gone!!! The "Location" reference of OneDrive was gone but also the ~/Library/CloudStorage/OneDrive-OrgName was empty! After a long search I finally found parts of my documents back in ~/Library/Group Containers/UBF8T346G9.OneDriveStandaloneSuite/OneDrive - OrgName.noindex/OneDrive - OrgName/ but it only contained documents with latest file change of 4 months ago ... 

 

This would mean I lost all my documents, changes, presentations and notes I made the last 4 months on my laptop (after which they should have been synct with the cloud) and for one project that were major steps I took these past months! 

 

Is there any way I can retrieve back my documents on my local machine? Is there some kind of local repository where the documents are stored before they get synchronised to the cloud and if so, how can I retrieve my documents back from that (Cache) repository?

I already had long talks with Microsoft OneDrive (cloud storage) support and they couldn't help me. So I really do hope anyone the development/devops team (@Ankita maybeof the OneDrive application of M1 MacOS can help me out on this one! Thanks!

Copper Contributor

As no one else has replied until now, I'm chipping in with what might just be helpful - get hold of some undelete software and look for your files in places you've already explored and, have some long talks with Apple engineers?

Wishing you success...

Copper Contributor

@Michael_Franks Thank you for your information but it all started after a reboot when I wasn't able to login anymore in the OneDrive app on my Mac (due to end-of-licence). I would never could have guessed it would remove my own files on my own local filesystem with that ... I was able to retrieve a copy of my files from August 2nd and I assume the rest of the changes is somewhere in some kind of repository stored locally before synchronising to the cloud version ... I'm looking for that location and a way to retrieve my own documents back on my own laptop.

 

I didn't delete them myself nor did Apple do that for me ...  I suspect the OneDrive app being responsible for that and I would like to retrieve them back :) 

 

Thank you for your wishes, they're needed :\ 

 

Copper Contributor

After waiting so long for an update and a fix for the bugs in OneDrive, I have decided today to take all my files off OneDrive and store them on our internal servers. We use Synology NAS and with the CloudDrive from Synology I have a far better option than with this rubbish.

 

Not impressed, Microsoft. Your OneDrive was working great until now and the latest update killed it. I don't care if Apple has changed the way your OneDrive has to work. You are a multi billion dollar company and cannot figure out a way to make it work? You must be joking.

 

For me that's the end of the road with OneDrive. It was a good ride over the years. Now it is time to move on.

Iron Contributor

You are SO right, @ASeedig .
Its a shame what this team and Microsoft are doing.

I lost all my trust in that company too and cancelled all my subscriptions. I am using iCloud now and I am soo happy.
For more than a year now that stupid team is probably reading - maybe not - all these threads about our problem and they just don't care.

 

Copper Contributor

Hello,

Is there any way to identify the state of the OneDrive files ( programmatically / on terminal ) on both MAC and windows

In Windows, we observed the following file attributes set for OneDrive files

1. A - ARCHIVE

2. L - SYMBOLIC LINK

3. O -  ONLINE ONLY

4. M -  FILE_ATTRIBUTE_RECALL_ON_DATA_ACCESS

OneDrive files can be in one of the following states and accordingly we are seeing the following attributes set on windows

1. Synced and also available locally on disk - (AL)

2. Synced and online only - (ALOM)

3. Not synced and present only on disk - (A)

Whether the above attributes are correct way to identify the right state on OneDrive file?

Similar to Windows, is there any way to fetch the following information on a Mac?

In the latest version of mac we can only identify this via finder icons(OneDrive finder extension). Is there any way to identify this on terminal like extended attributes ( xattr ) or any other way.

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